MALANEY: Good morning, welcome to Off the Record. Just a quick housekeeping note that I will be heading to Beijing on Tuesday, so I will be off the pod for the next few weeks. Uhh, last week we covered what North Korea offered to get their meeting with the United States which was nothing they did not offer any other administration but we will see what is to come. We also talked about the European effort to save the Iran deal and diplomacy without American leadership. Two very good pods with great guests. As always if you have not yet I always appreciate it if you like and subscribe, and please follow us on twitter at @offtherecord and tweet at me for the issues you want covered.

Today we are going to be brief but we are going to talk about the immigration policy changes from the Trump Administration which you guys tweeted that you wanted more information on because it has all been covered up with more news on the Russia probe which we do not cover because it gets enough attention.

So as always whenever we have immigration news, DW is here. Which actually guys, I sometimes think is why people want me to cover more immigration issues.

DW: I also assume that is the case but I do not want to brag or anything

MALANEY: You would never. DW why is there not a podcast or show or something on immigration issues? It seems like people always want to talk about it.

DW: The train has left the station on podcasts, I think it is trend that is ending. Maybe like I can make it so immigration issues are what will play over those food making videos? Those seem to get a lot of views.

MALANEY: The one you just sent me of those was so gross.

DW: it was chicken fried bacon it looked amazing

MALANEY: Disgusting. I will never make you that. Why do you only send me videos of things that I will never make.

DW: If you loved me . . .

MALANEY: Because I love you, I will not subject you to eating fried bacon But can we not digress so early on.

DW: Right, sorry. I do think a show that does focus on the in weeds issues on immigration would be awesome, but it is a very complex subject and probably pretty sad and if not quite boring at times. But right back on track here. I have my--- I don’t know what this is, like your version of a briefing memo? It is a paper, and it says in bold large letters FOLLOW THIS, I did not read the rest of it.

MALANEY: Seems to be working.

DW: like it matters

MALANEY: Oh wait. Do you want to talk about that "animals" comment

DW: Nah. I think that uhm, a comment like that which picks up a lot of news coverage it helps glide over the issues of the actual policies which are the most important. Trump is a master manipulator of the media he knows what he is doing when making public statements. That comment creates a new easier issue for him than the actual indefensible policies put in place. I am not saying what he says does not cause harm but I just think they are used as a distraction, and it works.

MALANEY: So can we talk about those new policies that the administration announced last week.

DW: So the first big one is of course being that that if a parent enters with their child they are going to separate parents and children, and they are going to prosecute the parent for trafficking a minor over the border, which is a criminal offense that bars you from deportation relief such as asylum, so that is why they are adding that prosecutorial or criminal element. Just entering without inspection alone does not bar you from being granted asylum and doing it this way will uh make otherwise eligible people deportable.

MALANEY: is that actually

DW: legal?

MALANEY: yeah?

DW: Making people ineligible on other grounds to circumvent offering internationally required avenues of relief based on racist and xenophobic beliefs I assume would not be legal but they are not going to say that out loud because then it would lose when it gets challenged in court. But it is very obvious to those of us who practice that they are trying to bar people from gaining relief. And this is not some cynical conspiracy theory, like DHS and DOJ lawyers sat around in a room and looked at ways to curb legal forms of migration and they sure did come up with quite the plan.

MALANEY: It is like even more despicable and awful when you start to factor in the actual purposes other than terrorizing families.

DW: I think that issue is inconsequential to them. It also gives government contracts to their friends in the private prison industry. The migration crisis has fueled the private prison industry. Previously detention centers would hold mothers and their children so they could be together as a family unit, in family detention centers.

But immigration organizations fought this hard, because family detention should not exist, and there are rules for places to qualify as detention centers that can hold children and these private prisons did not meet the strict standards to hold children in their facilities, I would also argue that they did not meet the standards to hold humans. So almost all of the private family detention centers were shut down by federal judges causing the private prison industry to lose substantial profits. So now they are now making numerous special detention centers just for minors and there are a few already a few in existence in South Carolina, Florida, and Texas. So separating parents and minors gives private prisons more government contracts and money. [loud sigh]

Third, it also creates access to justice problem because if the detention center where mom is, is in Texas and the minor is in the juvenile detention in South Carolina or Florida where they put unaccompanied minors you now need two lawyers instead of one for their immigration case and it will make it almost impossible to consolidate just on functionality, and the adjudication of their case can have two entirely different outcomes. Also, you may have seen an article that says the administration has a plan to “house children in military warehouses.” I highly doubt those facilities are going to meet the strict standards of places allowed to care for children, it will be fought, unfortunately courts are slow, and people suffer in the meantime while these issues are litigated.

MALANEY: house children in warehouses.

DW: what does that make you think of? And then the fourth policy

MALANEY: there is another one!?

DW: Yes, so the next thing this advances is that the administration believes this will act as a deterrent and will help stop people migrating here to claim asylum. Of course they are idiots and they do not realize that the reason they are bringing their children here is to flee the extraordinary violence that we have caused with the mass deportations of criminal gang members with no resources to support the local communities they flooded. The fact that ripping children away from their families is traumatizing and terrorizing is just extra for them. It serves a lot of purposes for their race based mass deportation effort. And if you disagree with that characterization that the deportaion effort is race based, you should read the President's chief of staff's statements on immigrants not being able to assimilate in a country of immigrants . . .

MALANEY: This is kind of a lot to take in. So, I am just going to boil it down a bit, circumventing the legal avenues that allow for deportation relief, private prison profits, less lawyers to help these claims get successfully argued, and as a deterrent and also it is cruel and inhumane.

DW: It is a sophisticatedly cruel policy that checks a lot of boxes for them, but I think if you break it down it can shed light on how truly despicable this administration is.

MALANEY: Every time you come on here to talk about immigration issues it is always super depressing and awful and I think why did I invite you.

DW: Yeah I know and I did not even talk about how those family detention centers were over crowded and riddled with bug beds and sewage overflows and two-year-old babies slept on cement floors, and they were denied access to attorneys, even ones who they had personally hired. Like the people who ran those detention centers should be criminally prosecuted but instead they get more government contracts, you know how it goes.

MALANEY: It seems like such a helpless situation all around.

DW: Actually Malaney there is an entire branch of government that has plenary power over immigration issues, and it is not the branch that is calling all the shots. Congress gets to make laws over immigration and because they have failed to do so, the gaps are filled with the President's shitty policies. Literally in the actual meaning of that word, Congress could pass a law that says you cannot separate children and parents at the border. But they will do nothing on immigration like they always have, so I guess yes and no it is a helpless situation because there are fixes to this but since the people whose job it is to do are not doing it, it gets drawn out in long expensive legal battles and people suffer in the time it takes to fight these.

I have grown numb to both optimism and pessimism in this area. But you know even when people were not paying attention to the migration crisis there were lawyers and organizations working very hard to challenge and stop practices we believe or know are illegal and inhumane. And people are challenging these policy changes, and they are paying attention and raising funds to bring these legal challenges and help people. Undocumented persons have the lowest legal protections of any class of persons when it comes to due process uhm but they still have rights and still win cases and challenges they just have to be brought.

So, now I am going to plug, that other than voting, one thing you can do is you can donate to organizations like the ACLU, American Immigration Council, National Immigration Law Center

MALANEY: Did you forget one?!

DW: Why yes, Malaney, thanks. Uh. You can also donate to the Immigrant Legal Defense Fund, which is an access to justice initiative that works with all of the organizations I just stated as well as many others along with corporate and law firm sponsorship to help detained immigrants get access and representation which is necessary for a successful asylum claim, we are entirely privately funded and we take all sorts of donations of. . .money or if you are a practicing attorney or law firm we can also use your pro bono services, as we are facing a backlog of more than seven hundred thousand cases. But just to clarify ILD defends people facing deportation, it is an access to justice program which means it is all about getting representation to clients in need it is not the same thing as challenging those big policy issues that we were talking about.

MALANEY: I will put the link in the episode notes, and uh and also important that DW actually is one of the founders of this group and helps run it.

DW: That is not important but you can actually donate to us right through the ACLU website now which is always a safe place to donate, you can just check the ILD box, and if you are a member of the ACLU you can now request that some of your fees go to this program. And you know it is almost June, wedding month, a donation to the ACLU is what I always give as a wedding gift.

MALANEY: Yeah . . . and people love it?

DW: it just seems more useful than 200 dollar mixing bowls that are going to be used to eat microwave popcorn out of, like be realistic.

MALANEY: You know some people might think that it is nice gift, but I just want to inform everyone that DW started doing this basically out of spite.

DW: Wellllll, spite is kind of a strong word, but like how much time and money was I supposed to give someone for something I could not even legally do for most of my life?

MALANEY: That's terrible

DW: I thought I was being kind of sweet and funny with a little useful privilege check?

MALANEY: AT THEIR WEDDING?

DW: Is there a better time? I don't know why I had to go to like a million weddings in the early 2000s but you know it just seemed right.

MALANEY: [groaning] It is not nice.

DW: Going to weddings or supporting civil liberties which one of those is not nice?

MALANEY: I actually love going to weddings and picking out the gift and wrapping the gift, I don't mean to brag but I am the best present wrapper.

DW: Malaney makes me go to this store where like they sell designer wrapping paper by the sheet. And I saw one there that cost eighteen dollars. Eighteen dollars for a sheet of paper that is going to be ripped up and thrown in the garbage. Who buys that stuff? And also, people sent me thank you cards, so, I assume that they liked their gift.

MALANEY: you mean Paper Source. . . it is a pretty well known store. . . and paper is their thing. And uh... people sent you those cards because they are kind and have an obligation to do so

DW: If you send a thank you card out of an obligation to do it and not because you want---

MALANEY: Everyone should always send thank you cards, it is not like a negotiable thing.

DW: People do not want disingenuous thank you cards, but you know what you are the boss Mal, so I just do whatever you tell me to do and call it a day unless I do not want to do that thing.

MALANEY: Maybe you should send backdated gifts to all those couples now.

DW: I think it would really only technically be like 50 percent of them right? That is the divorce rate?

MALANEY: DW!

DW: Is that not right?

MALANEY: You went to their wedding got them a spiteful present and now you are assuming they are all divorced.

DW: Uh only half of them. And I donated to a cause in their name so one day they could come to my wedding and get me a present, it is like a triple present, because they get to give the donation without having to actually do it, then that money gets used to help everyone get married, and then when I get married they get to come to my wedding and give me a present. So it is like I just paid for own gift. And like what is better, financially contributing to equality or some stupid mixing bowls?

MALANEY: Still on those mixing bowls?

DW: Or a shittier crock pot or toaster than the one you probably already have.

MALANEY: If they are registering for it it means things they want it and don't have it.

DW: Oh right, sorry, two shittier toasters than the one you really want but think it is too expensive to ask your friends to buy it for you.

MALANEY: No if you buy it no one else can buy it now, they worked out all the kinks out. Seems like something you very dearly misunderstood.

DW: Thank god you were able to malsplain this concept to me or I never would have understood.

MALANEY: malsplain

DW: Do you just love that?

MALANEY: not a fan

DW: How do I convey the shrug emoji in words? You know we have friends getting married soon

MALANEY: We do, and I am picking out the gift so they do not have to worry.

DW: Hold it hold it, you do not have to do that because the groom said to me, he said, I am the gift. I love that somebody thinks I am so special that I am a present. I also like that he did not say you were a gift.

MALANEY: If you guys could see my face right now . . .

DW: I would take a picture but my phone is just far enough out of reach that I would have to get up and ehh. But, Mal I just want you to know that every day I get to spend with you is a present

MALANEY: Ugh ew. If you think that is going to make up for that malsplain joke you are sorely mistaken.

DW: You are such a faker you love that sappy stuff.

MALANEY: Oh give me a break.

DW: You cried during Frozen

MALANEY: It was sad!

DW: It was not that sad, and you also cried

MALANEY: alright alright

DW: when you watched that video of the dog teaching the puppy to walk down the stairs

MALANEY: I stand by that, if you did not tear up in that video you are heartless, and if you need some cheering up after this miserably sad podcast you should google, dog teaches puppy to walk down stairs if you have not seen it.

DW: her eyes start watering if I just pull out the Goblet of Fire dvd

MALANEY: alright yeah yeah fine, I'm a big sappy loser.

DW: Aww well as long as you know yourself. Haha. As always, this conversation derailed into being very uninformative. Kind of an information overload at the top. Completely Malaney's fault because she does not ask me questions she just let's me talk into a policy rant void

MALANEY: Anyways. Thank you for coming on and explaining the web of policies behind this new change in terrible immigration rules and telling us about the places that are fighting these issues and who we should be holding accountable to fix it, and giving me a bad nickname and telling people not to send thank you cards and telling everyone I cried during Frozen.

DW: Happy to do it any time.